Interview with President of the Government on Spanish Television's Telediario 2

Carlos Franganillo.- President of the Government, Pedro Sánchez. Good evening.

President of the Government.- Good evening.

Carlos Franganillo.- Thank you for coming here to Spanish Television, in your first interview since you announced these snap elections. It is nine-thirty at night and this is a live interview. Until not long ago, you were thinking about seeing out the legislature, of staying in power until 2020; you even said you might resort to extending the Budget of Mariano Rajoy with some changes. What has changed; why call snap elections now?

President of the Government.- Well, because in the end the Budget is everything for a government. When we won the vote of no confidence, the Budget had just been approved by the previous administration, and we decided, for the sake of political, economic and social stability to extend this Budget. But clearly the Budget is a project the government has for the country. And for me, after seven years of social injustice, of cuts and of austerity, it was vital to approve this social Budget, to reduce this inequality gap, this level of insecurity and lack of opportunities for many unemployed workers.

Hence, we have got this far, and hit this brick wall whereby this very social Budget has been blocked and so clearly we need to call elections.

F.- President of the Government, I would like us to look at some recent pictures and comment on them with you. (Pictures are shown of the moment when the President of the Government returns to the Council of Ministers room after appearing at the press briefing to announce snap elections). Do you feel that this was a day to celebrate?

President of the Government.- It was a day to call for many things. The vote of no confidence that meant opening up a new cycle in Spanish politics, an era where the best of politics could be recovered, an era to take politics out of the situation of corruption in which it had been immersed as a result of the previous party that was in government.

We had a very clear roadmap: a vote of no confidence, deal with urgent social needs, regenerate the democratic life in our country, stabilise our country politically and then call elections.

Over these last eight months, which have been exciting, with only 84 MPs, we have managed to push through 13 Laws, 25 Royal Decree-Laws, which have successfully done a great deal for the social majority of this country. For example, we not only managed to recover the universal nature of public healthcare, but also something fundamental, which is the fight against job insecurity. And thanks to this plan, that we approved at the start of my term of office, back in July, 100,000 jobs that were insecure have now been turned into permanent employment contracts.

In other words, we have governed, and when the time came when we could no longer govern, we have done what is sensible and loyal to our citizens, which is to allow their voices to be heard and their votes to be counted, because they are never wrong when taking a decision.

F.- But in the end you have had to shorten the legislature; which wasn't your original plan. Do you see this as a personal failure?

President of the Government.- Quite the opposite. I believe that when you hold the Presidency of the Government, you have to work hard and do your duty. As I said, we have approved 25 Royal Decree-Laws. From the fight against energy poverty to measures related to childhood poverty, to forging the pact against gender-based violence, to fighting job insecurity, to raising the minimum wage, to raising pensions, in short, to doing many things that had not been done in the previous seven years. We have done more for social justice in our country over these last eight months than the government of the People's Party in the previous seven years.

F.- You spoke a little earlier about winning this vote of no confidence, about regenerating democratic life, even on TVE you said that you would to have to govern with the Lower House, not fight against the Lower House, but you have quoted the figure of 13 Laws, 25 Royal Decree-Laws, the latter being a tool designed for extreme situations of urgent necessity. In this regard, you have not acted very differently from previous Presidencies of the Government.

President of the Government.- But there is an important difference.

To give you an idea, it is as important what we have done as what we have not done. And we have not been able to do many things, for example, push through the Euthanasia Act, or repeal the Labour Reform or the Gag Act. Not because there was no parliamentary majority in the Lower House, which there wasn't, but because there was no alternative majority on the Board of the Lower House, which is what that majority has employed to hinder the passage of many of these bills.

Hence, what we have done is use the figure of the Royal Decree-Law, firstly because we appreciated the urgency of many of these related matters; for example, the State Pact to Combat Gender-based Violence, or in relation to energy poverty, to name two measures pushed through via Royal Decree-Laws, but we also need to denounce the obstructive nature, the parliamentary filibustering, of the People's Party and of Ciudadanos...

F.- But when you saw this inability to push through your bills, why didn't you decide to call elections and seek a broader majority?

President of the Government.- Because we have indeed governed. Because we have indeed pushed through many Laws. Because we have indeed pushed through many Royal Decree-Laws to the benefit of the social majority of this country.

Just look, we were a government founded on a parliamentary minority of 84 MPs. That forced us to forge many alliances. If you also look at the result of these votes on the Royal Decree-Laws, and on the bills that were pushed through over these eight months, what you can see is that they were not only voted for by the MPs that backed the vote of no confidence, but they have also been backed by MPs from the Ciudadanos and People's Party parliamentary groups.

In other words, we have governed for the majority, regardless of who voted and, of course, regardless of their ideology.

F.- We are here in Moncloa Palace; you have been here for about nine months now, and we have heard the opposition say on many occasions that you are a squatter in Moncloa Palace. What do you think about this term?

President of the Government.- I think it is dangerous. I think it is dangerous to describe a president of the government as taking power via a coup, to describe a president of the government as illegitimate or to describe a president of the government as a squatter, because these are terms that only serve to impoverish our democracy, to impoverish the important figure of the presidency of the government in our institutional framework.

Look, I was elected as President of the Government following a vote of no confidence, which is regulated in Article 113 of the Spanish Constitution. A vote of no confidence which, by the way, must be constructive for the sake of the stability of our system.

What those who backed that vote of no confidence to call elections are doing is to precisely betray the spirit and the letter of Article 113 of the Spanish Constitution, which clearly states that votes of no confidence must be used to establish constructive governments. In other words, this is not a case of "you are out so that I am in"; but rather it is a new government, with a new government programme that must be implemented.

And that is what we have done. We proposed to attend to urgent social needs, we proposed to modernise our economy - and there you have the commitment we made to education, to the ecological transition and the clear commitment we made to science in our country. And now that we have reached the banks of this Rubicon, which is what the presentation of our social Budget amounts to, we have been faced with a veto by the pro-independence forces and also by those forces of conservatism in our country.

F.- I wanted to talk about that. You are heavily criticised by the People's Party and by Ciudadanos, but in reality the parties that have rejected this Budget and have possibly had the greatest influence in prematurely ending this legislature are those that put you into Moncloa Palace in the first place: Esquerra Republicana, PDeCAT, Bildu, and even some MPs from de En Marea. What do you have to say about these groups?

President of the Government.- On many occasions, people speak about the bloc formed for the vote of no confidence, but I disagree with that description and I will tell you why. Let me turn the argument around on those who use this idea of the bloc formed for the vote of no confidence. The vote of no confidence may or may not have gone through depending on how the pro-independence Catalan groups voted. If back in June these pro-independence Catalan groups had voted against the vote of no confidence, then you would have had Mariano Rajoy sitting here today as the President of the Government. Would that have meant that Mariano Rajoy had made a pact with the pro-impendence forces? Yes or no? Clearly not.

In other words, no agreement was ever reached with the pro-independence forces. What happened was that a parliamentary majority took on a certain responsibility, particularly the Socialist Party, that following a court ruling that clearly associated and pointed to the President of the Government, then Mariano Rajoy, but who refused to take on the responsibility of opting to resign, something which the parliamentary groups of Ciudadanos didn't demand either, hence the majority of the parliamentary groups in the Lower House took an unconditional step forward and helped push through this vote of no confidence for the first time in our democracy.

Hence, what I want to say is this. What we have done each week with draft laws and initiatives that the government has presented to the Lower House of Parliament, has been to reach agreements with each and every parliamentary group, whether left or right wing, and also with the pro-independence forces, logically enough.

F.- You have made a particular effort to engage in dialogue with the pro-independence forces in the Regional Government of Catalonia. There are those who feel that concessions have also been made in this regard. I don't know how to describe this ultimate abandonment of the Budget. As betrayal, or as disappointment with these parties? Would you look at forging pacts with them again after 28 April? I refer to the pro-independence Catalan parties.

President of the Government.- I challenge the whole idea of once again forging pacts with the pro-independence parties because we never made a pact with them in the first place.

F.- At least counting on their support then.

President of the Government.- Today I listened to Mr Rivera and the Ciudadanos parliamentary group, which are going to impose a "cordon sanitaire" on the Socialist Party, meaning they will not make any pact with the Socialist Party. And I believe that it is also important to enlighten our citizens. As democrats, we have to respect each other and recognise each other.

When a political party says to another party, in this case, to the PSOE, that it is not going to make any pact with them, that it is going to impose a "cordon sanitaire" on them, what it is doing is imposing exclusion and holding an absolutely exclusionary vision of our democratic system, because I represent millions of citizens who place their trust in the PSOE. What is this message saying? That they are going to exclude millions of Spaniards who vote for the Socialist Party?

I believe that 28 April should serve precisely to unite the Spanish people, and I believe that what is important, in this election campaign, is not that you say who you are going to make pacts with or not, but firstly to demonstrate and convey to the Spanish people the project we have for the country.

F.- But at least you are not closing the door on this possible alliance or on counting on the support of the pro-independence forces as from May?

President of the Government.- Nor am I closing the door on reaching an agreement with Ciudadanos, with Podemos or with the People's Party on all sorts of issues, as we have done over the last eight months. What the country needs is to unite around the major projects we have ahead of us.
Look, in 2019, Spanish society is facing some tremendous challenges related to the education of our children, related to the sustainability of our public pension system and the Welfare State, related to the challenge of employment, to the future of work and also of the business fabric. Or related to climate change and the environment, and clearly to equality between men and women. And to do that, we need to strengthen all our collective ties.

I defend the unity of Spain, but defending the unity of Spain means uniting the Spanish people, not leading regions into confrontation, or facing off Spaniards against Spaniards. I believe that that is what we are unfortunately seeing today in some parties that are at the right-hand limited the ideological spectrum of our political system.

F.- We will now close off this section on possible alliances. How do you see Podemos? They have stood by you during this last phase of your term of office. Would you prefer to see a weaker Podemos or a stronger Podemos? The polls are showing that this political force may see a serious decline in its share.

President of the Government.- Let's see, in the first place, I am grateful to Podemos for the support offered the Government of Spain on certain measures. There are some areas in which I feel the party has gone wrong; they clearly got it wrong over the crisis in Catalonia when, to some extent, they legitimised the illegal referendum on 1 October, something the Socialist Party did not do. They also got it wrong on the Royal Decree-Law on Housing, because I believe there were lots of elements there related to young people, to access to housing, to the age of emancipation of our young people, which is so important, at least to me, as the President of the Government; this greatly interests me.

Aside from that, I believe that what is important is that we are aware that on 28 April, voting means making progress while abstaining may actually mean setting Spain back 40 years.

F.- One of the main issues of this term of office has been negotiations with Catalonia. Looking at the outcome, I was wondering whether you regret any of the steps taken, I refer to the issue of the rapporteur, which has been widely criticised. "Now everybody is interested in the "rapporteur". [It is a widely recognised figure at the United Nations. We don't need "rapporteurs; I am seriously concerned by the institutional degradation", said Felipe González. "I don't understand anything. What I can tall you is that I am going to call a meeting of the Territorial Board of the Socialist Party, because I really want to make my opinion absoilutely clear.......", said Emiliano García-Page, President of the Regional Government of Castile-La Mancha]. "Institutional degradation", said Felipe González, "I don't understand anything", said Emiliano García-Page. Have these statements by leading members of the Socialist Party in their decisions in last ten or fifteen weeks weighed heavily?

President of the Government.- All of these decisions have been closely heeded, although I disagree with them.

Just look, as the party leader, when I was in opposition, I always demanded the same from Mariano Rajoy, the then-President of the Government, to engage in dialogue.

I would ask your viewers the following. Would the transition to democracy have been possible without dialogue? Would it have been possible?

What is being questioned here is dialogue. Dialogue within the Constitution, but dialogue nonetheless; dialogue within the law, but dialogue nonetheless. I am not going to renounce.....

F.- You knew the other part was not within that framework, didn't you?

President of the Government.- Now I'm going to get to that part. From the point of view of the framework, of the context, when I was Leader of the Opposition, I said to the then-President of the Government, to Mr Rajoy, that you have all the support of the main opposition party, that this is a State opposition, which is something I have not received. You may wear down the government, that is legitimate in the opposition, but what you cannot do is wear down the State, which is what the People's Party and Ciudadanos have done by not standing on the side of the Government of Spain.

But aside from that, we proposed to set up a committee in the Lower House of Parliament to evaluate our regional model, which could serve as a framework to discuss the issue of Catalonia, but not only this matter.

The parliamentary group of Ciudadanos, the pro-independence forces and the People's Party parliamentary group, during the last stretch of this legislature, rejected being present.

The Board of the Regional Parliament of Catalonia, also, upon a proposal from the Socialist Party of Catalonia to open a cross-party panel where, once again, the pro-independence forces refused to take this seriously, and where the People's Party and Ciudadanos refused to take part.

In other words, our country unfortunately has political parties that are living off of territorial confrontation, what they want is a permanent Article 155 in place because what they want is to entrench the problem in Catalonia.

F.- You were negotiating until suddenly, two days after the controversy of the rapporteur, you felt let down saying that the other part was in favour of self-determination. At what moment....?

President of the Government.- We have engaged in a great deal of dialogue. We have reactivated the bilateral committee recognised in the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia which had not met for many years.....

F.- Yes, but in Pedralbes in December, Regional President Torra presented you with a document that spoke directly about resolving giving access to self-determination.

President of the Government.- A document that was unacceptable for the Government of Spain and couldn't be followed. That was clear and they knew it.

Look, we have followed many paths of dialogue over these last eight months, including the proposal we brought before the Board of the Regional Parliament of Catalonia, as I mentioned before, and the committee in the Lower House of Parliament, whereby we could create a cross-party panel in Catalonia to debate what to do to resolve the issue of Catalonia, which would not include independence, but would revolve around co-existence while always respecting the statutory framework of the Constitution.

Do you know what conclusion I have reached? That the pro-independence forces dread sitting down to engage in dialogue because in the end, what that infamous tweet by Rufían regarding the 150 pieces of silver and describing Puigdemont as a traitor shows is that they are at an absolute stalemate.
In other words, they are afraid to sit down and engage in dialogue. They are afraid to acknowledge that independence is not possible in Catalonia and to say this to the most radical elements of the Catalan population, who are obviously supporting these political parties, who have lied to them and who must now return to the constitutional fold.

F.- There is an episode in which you have been widely criticised in this regard in the negotiations with the Regional Government of Catalonia. I refer to that meeting in Pedralbes and the joint release you issued where you spoke about the framework of legal certainty; you avoided mentioning the Constitution, in an apparent concession to the pro-independence parties and to the Regional Government of Catalonia. Why did you do that?

President of the Government.- Legal certainty means the Constitution. It's in the Statute of Autonomy.

F.- So why didn't you say that? Why didn't you refer to the Constitution formally?

President of the Government.- This is not something I have said on one occasion but on hundreds, if not thousands of occasions. Each time I have spoken about the Constitution since 2014. This Government of Spain is the only government backed by a party that has really addressed the issue of Catalonia as a State matter.

That is my argument. This government is a pro-Constitution government. The Socialist Party is a pro-Constitution party. Clearly when we speak about the Constitution we have a completely different outlook from the People's Party or from Ciudadanos because it is much richer. They have a much more limited view of the Constitution.

In reality, when the opposition speaks about Catalonia, when it demonstrates in Colon Square, which for me is a bloc that wishes to see us head backwards, with the photo of these three political leaders who are not demonstrating against Mr Torra, or against the pro-independence movement, but are demonstrating to throw out Sánchez.

In other words, the problem with the right wing in Spain, to a large degree, is not how the Socialist Party is governing, but the fact that the Socialist Party is governing at all, which is why they describe me as a squatter, which is why they describe me as an illegitimate President of the Government, they dismiss me in that manner.

Hence, I believe that 28 April, to some extent, is also related to what happened in June last year with the vote of no confidence. In the vote of no confidence, we removed corruption from politics; we returned it to the domain of useful politics. You can see the balance of what we have done in these eight months in government to the benefit of the social majority. On 28 April, we must remove tensions and insults from politics. We are facing too many challenges.

F.- But aside from these positions of the opposition parties, you must appreciate that there are doubts and fears in many sectors of the population regarding possible concessions to the pro-independence forces. Even the Government Delegate in Catalonia, Teresa Canillera, spoke on some occasions about proposing a pardon in the event that those accused under the 'procés' are found guilty. Would you propose this in a few months' time?

President of the Government.- I have answered that question on countless occasions. Let's see. I respect the independence of the judiciary, as is only right and fitting. As President of the Government you will never have heard me say to the Supreme Court what it has to do in relation to Catalonia.

In theory, I am not talking about this case, pardons are only given out following a guilty verdict, if they are given out at all, which is not the case here for the time being, following a favourable report from the court that finds them guilty, which hasn't happened here yet either.

In other words, there are some issues that must be substantiated from a political point of view.

What we must do here at this time is respect the judiciary - the judges and the prosecutors - who, by the way, are doing an extraordinary job and clearly count on the recognition and the respect of the Presidency of the Government and on the government itself.

So, out of a sense of responsibility and respect for the judiciary, I will not make any further statement. But that does not mean that I am going to do this. I simply believe that these questions should be asked in the event of a guilty verdict, because we have a fundamental element in our democratic system, which is the presumption of innocence, which would precisely be violated by the government by making a statement now.

F.- I mentioned before the disquiet in some sectors of the population about any negotiations with the pro-independence parties. Has that happened, what we saw before....?

President of the Government.- You say that, but look, when I was the Leader of the Opposition I supported Article 155 whereas now I see the Leader of the Opposition say that his first measure would be to apply Article 155 in Catalonia on an indefinite basis.

In the end, what they are proposing is an Article 155 at a national level, which means that they want to re-centralise politics from the State of Autonomies.

F.- But we are not only hearing that from the opposition; we have also seen that from leading members of your party. We have also seen - as we mentioned earlier - José María Barreda and Soraya Rodríguez, who were removed from their parliamentary offices two days later. Why were they removed?

President of the Government.- You would have to ask the leaders of the parliamentary group. I am not involved in everything. I am in the executive power ....

F.- Is that not related to that political discrepancy?

President of the Government.- What I can say is that there may clearly be people in the Socialist Party who disagree with the government's position. I accept that, but I would also say to you that there are many people within the Socialist Party who are in favour of what the majority of our citizens are in favour of, which is legality and dialogue. Constitution and dialogue.

Just look, one of the main virtues of the previous government was precisely its application of Article 155 which we agreed on - both the government and the opposition. The response had to be proportional to the challenge. It must always be proportional to the challenge, because although you may have parliamentary legitimacy - the People's Party had the numbers with an absolute majority in the Upper House - you also need social legitimacy to push this through. Would our citizens understand the application of an indefinite Article 155 in Catalonia at this time when no type of illegal activity has been committed by the Regional Government of Catalonia, at least that the Government of Spain is aware of? What I mean by this is that any response by the Government of Spain to a potential secessionist challenge must at all times be proportional.

And secondly this must be done together. What you cannot have is that such a key article of the Constitution for our State of Autonomies as Article 155 is irresponsibly used as an electoral weapon by the opposition because, in reality, they are not throwing water on the fire to resolve the conflict, what they are actually doing is throwing on more petrol.

F.- Let's move on from the issue of Catalonia and continue talking about the Socialist Party; you are used to internal wrangling, to resistance.

President of the Government.- It is a democratic party

F.- You now have a chance to draw up the list of candidates; will you adapt the party to your tastes?

President of the Government.- What I will do is have a parliamentary group that I believe must represent the plurality of the Socialist Party and which must be admired, of course, for the work that this government is performing.

F.- Will Minister Borrell head up the party list of MEPs?

President of the Government.- I have always given the same response to your colleagues who have asked me this question. I believe that Pepe Borrell is an extraordinary Minister for Foreign Affairs, and that he would also be an extraordinary candidate for the European elections.

F.- Are you counting on him in that role? Is it official?

President of the Government.- Well, he is one of the people who is a logical and natural candidate for this.

Let me add something else, I have even been criticised for the trips I have made to Brussels and the trips I have made overseas. I believe that one of the main tasks of the Presidency of the Government is also to recover the prestige, the presence, the capacity of Spain to be influential - an important country for the European construction process and also in the Ibero-American Community of Nations.

That, of course, is how I see things. I believe that Spain has a great deal to contribute on economic policy, migration policy, social policy, rights and freedoms, and on European construction. And that has clearly been my goal during these last eight months.

F.- Let's look back over these last eight months; were the resignations of Máxim Huertas and Carmen Montón the toughest moments you have gone through?

President of the Government.- Well, I believe that the toughest moments I have gone through as President of the Government, looking back, have always been related to misfortunes. Misfortunes due to natural disasters, to the loss of human life, compatriots aboard; and also due to gender-based violence. Other issues logically affect you personally, because you commit to a series of people and then, unfortunately this commitment does not bear fruit.

F.- But perhaps many people may not understand why they left, why they resigned when there are others in similar situations who remained in office.

President of the Government.- I believe that this government has shown its exemplary nature and a certain rigour in complying with public duties in an exemplary fashion that is unparalleled in recent years. I don't want to say that we have been the best in terms of exemplary conduct, but we have actively applied this with rigour.

Just look, this is a government that offered the highest number of women on a Council of Ministers, with 65, or 67% of female ministers, which is also a source of pride for Spain, but it has also done something important, which is to open up the Council of Ministers to social role models in different areas, whether justice, home affairs, science, climate change or ecology. In short, I believe that this is a government that represents the very best of Spanish society reasonably faithfully.

And let me tell you something else; if in the end I can count on the confidence of the Spanish people, I can assure you that the Council of Ministers that the Spanish people will see will be even more open with the contribution of civil society and role models to the Council of Ministers.

F.- We have just a few minutes left to talk about your trips. What episode complicated things for you the most, or what photo would you rather have avoided being taken? I am talking about Falcon, about the use of Falcon; I am referring to your doctoral thesis. Which moment most…?

President of the Government.- Well, I believe that we must turn our backs on these constant tensions, and I mentioned before that we have to eliminate these tensions on 28 April.

Of course, these ad hominen attacks, these personal attacks, rather than attacks on political work seem to me to be one of those habits that we must banish from politics.

I clearly don't use that ploy. I have never done that with any of my political adversaries, not with Mr Casado, not with Mr Rivera, not with Mr Iglesias, which is how I propose to exercise my political actions. I believe it is time for the Spanish people to unite, because we have many challenges ahead of us.

Just look, I said this earlier, this is the Council of Ministers that I am going to set up. And I will also say to you that the first measure I am going to approve as the new President of the Government will be to approve a social Budget. And within this social Budget, the main task we face as a society is to push through an overhaul of our education system, with basic education from 0 to 3 years of age; with basic education until 18 years of age; with university education, vocational training and continuous training for our workers.

The next legislature must be defined by something, at least that is my goal, which is to implement a legislature that transforms and modernises our education system, in which we create public education.

F.- Allow me to ask you about a news item of current affairs this week, which is the presentation of your book. You are the first active President of the Government who has decided to publish a book. Why have you done so?

President of the Government.- Well, this was a book that I thought up and drafted when I was Leader of the Opposition. In fact, the first chapter is the first measure I would take as President of the Govenrment, and it then goes back to the year 2014, when I was elected as General Secretary of the Socialist Party.

F.- I wanted to ask you about economic affairs - we have a great deal to talk about - but perhaps the main failure or the main element of non-compliance with your initial agenda is not having repealed the labour reform. The labour reform remains in force and perhaps has contributed, in fact, to unemployment continuing to fall. Does that thorn remain in your side?

President of the Government.- Well, I said to you all in my first session as President of the Government that we must be aware of the parliamentary majority we have; that there are two conservative forces in the Lower House of Parliament, of a nationalistic bent, that have a social sensitivity that neither the People's Party nor Ciudadanos has, but which are radically opposed to repealing the labour reform, and hence we have worked hard and extensively to precisely repeal some harmful aspects of the labour reform. Unfortunately, other aspects have not been possible, but I give you my word that a new Workers' Statute obviously has to be enacted in the next term of office, and that is a commitment I will uphold.

But, just look, 84 MPs is not enough to do that; I need many more. And that is what I believe is important. We not only need to explain to our citizens what we have done in these eight months, which is a great deal, we also need to explain those things that we have been unable to do as a result of a lack of a parliamentary majority or because of the obstructive nature of the People's Party and of Ciudadanos. And in this second term, I obviously hope that the labour reform will be one of the core elements of my task ahead as, I hope, the next President of the Government.

F.- I wanted to ask you about another matter that you have tried to push through since the outset, but not achieved. I am referring to the exhumation of [Francisco] Franco. You have implemented this through a series of Decree-Laws. It is likely that this matter will end up in the courts, in the Supreme Court. Do you think that during this term of office, before it ends, we will see a definitive step taken?

President of the Government.- Well, the definitive step was taken last Friday at the Council of Ministers.

F.- I am referring to the exhumation..

President of the Government.- To the realisation of the exhumation. Well, at the last Council of Ministers, just a few days ago, the administrative procedure was finalised. The Franco family has now been notified that the Government of Spain will proceed to the exhumation of the dictator from the Valley of the Fallen; and they have been given a 15-day deadline to say exactly where they want the remains of their grandfather - the dictator - to be re-buried.

Of course there has been a report, which is legally very sound, stating that the Almudena Cathedral is not the place to re-bury the dictator and hence, they will need to specify another location to re-bury the remains of their grandfather. Aside from that, what the Government of Spain must do is notify the day, the date and the time at which it will undertake the exhumation and the re-burial. And clearly, from the government's point of view, in a social and democratic State under the rule of law, we have complied with our duty. We have complied with the Historical Memory Act, we have complied with our mandate from Parliament, from a democratic Parliament. And what I now hope is that sooner rather than later we can carry out this exhumation and this re-burial.

F.- We have just a few minutes left, President of the Government. We are here at Spanish Television, so I must ask you about the Spanish Radio and Television Corporation, which now has a sole director on a transitory basis. A public tender that is making no progress. What now?

President of the Government.- We now need to think closely about public tenders. We must give the parliamentary groups in the Lower House food for thought, who have not done their homework in recent months. And of course, the Government of Spain will guarantee the independence of a public enterprise so that it can offer plural, diverse and objective information, just as you are doing.

F.- There are just over two months remaining until these elections on 28 April, do you commit to a four-way debate here on Spanish Television?

President of the Government.- I commit to a debate, but it is the campaign teams who must finally decide this.

F.- And one last question to close. Would you think about withdrawing from the front line of politics in the event that you cannot govern following the elections of 28 April.

President of the Government.- Listen, that is like saying to a basketball player when he is about to go out and play the last few minutes of an ACB final what he is going to do if his team loses. We are here to win the elections. Everything seems to point to us being the leading political force in this country. I believe that Spain needs stability and progress, and I humbly hope that the Spanish people trust the work we have done over these last eight months.

And obviously in what we plan to do over the next four years.

F.- President of the Government, Pedro Sánchez, thank you for coming here to our news programme. We look forward to seeing you at that debate, which we hope can be organised in the coming weeks. It has been a pleasure to have you here today on Spanish Television.

President of the Government.- Thank you. Good night.

(Transcript edited by the State Secretariat for Communication)

Non official translation