​Press conference by President of the Government

Madrid

President of the Government.- Good day to you all and thank you very much for attending.

I appear here before you to take stock of the events that took place in Catalonia on Sunday and explain the policy to be followed by this government in relation to this issue.

As you will recall, on 12 December last year, as soon as it was announced that a referendum was to be held in Catalonia, I said to you that this referendum would not be held and, as you are all aware it has not actually been held. That is the first thing I want to make clear: a referendum has not been held.

Instead of that, we have witnessed an electoral simulation, without a census, without polling officers and controlled by the same people who wished to win it; in other words, people who were both the judge and party to the process. What took place on Sunday in Catalonia was not a democratic vote, as it didn't meet any of the requirements for one; this was an act of political propaganda. The difference between this and other mobilisations and which shows the special gravity of this simulation is that it was carried out in breach of the resolutions of the Constitutional Court.

Leaving to one side the legal consequences that may result therefrom and focusing on a political analysis, which is what falls to me, I must say that we have witnessed a great disaster for the pro-independence project; I say this with all my respect for those people who took part and did so in good faith.

After so much commotion, so many mobilisations, so much public money spent; after having turned this issue into the only issue that the Regional Government of Catalonia has concerned itself with during this term of office, and although they expected a massive turnout and an overwhelming result in favour of the position of those who called this simulation, it turns out that, according to their own accounts; their own; the vast majority of the people of Catalonia did not bother to support this effort from Mr Mas; two out of every three Catalans didn't even bother to take part, two out of three ignored this call for support. In other words, while the pro-independence project sought to offer a show of force, it offered a show of weakness.

I will not further assess figures which, for me, lack any type of credibility; but we are faced with one undeniable fact: we now have further evidence of what we already knew - In Catalonia there are many more Catalans than pro-independence supporters; Catalonia is plural, very plural and Mr Mas cannot achieve his goal without causing a huge breakdown of Catalan society and without seriously damaging social peace and harmony; a value that I consider represents the majority opinion of the citizens throughout the country.

What will happen now? Mr Mas suggested that we should take up dialogue once again. I have never refused to talk, neither with Mr Mas nor with anyone else.

Everyone knows this; I strongly believe in dialogue to resolve political problems and I believe that this is an essential duty of any democratic leader. Obviously any dialogue that I participate in must always come within the framework - I repeat, always - established by the Constitution and the obligations I am subject to.

In this respect, I don't want anyone to be deceived by, or to misinterpret, the situation in which we find ourselves. As we know that the first thing Mr Mas wants is to impose the holding of a "real" referendum, "a binding referendum" to use his own words, I can tell you now that this cannot be.

What was illegal a year ago remains so today, and what was my obligation a year ago has not changed, added to which my political stance that independence is bad for the people of Catalonia and indeed for the rest of the people of Spain remains the same.

If Mr Mas wants us to overlook the first article of the Spanish Constitution, which refers to the sovereignty of the Spanish people, which establishes that it falls to all the people of Spain to decide on what we must be and on our future, he will receive the same response as he has always received. This is the position of this government, this is the position expressed in the ruling of the Constitutional Court and the position which, by an overwhelming majority, was voted on by the Lower House of Parliament in the month of April.

If Mr Mas want to amend the Constitution in order for it to provide for the right to self-determination to consequently do away with national sovereignty, he is fully entitled to do so. And that is where he should have started. The Regional Parliament of Catalonia is empowered to set in motion a process of constitutional reform. That is what they should have done from the very outset; that is the only legal and responsible way to carry out their intentions.

And Mr Mas knows this, because I have explained this to him on each and every occasion that I have spoken with him, which have been many. There is a route established to achieve what he wants, a legal route, a route that cannot be objected to; what it would seem he doesn't have however is the necessary support to achieve this.

I want to make my position clear on this matter; I will oppose any constitutional reform that does away with national sovereignty, as will my party.

Having said that, I would add that my obligation, as President of the Government, is to attend to the needs, the well-being and the concerns of the Catalan people, together with those of the rest of the people of Spain. I have done that and I will continue to do that. For example, in a critical moment for the finances of the Regional Government of Catalonia, it was the Government of the Nation that implemented liquidity mechanisms that enabled essential public services to be financed, to attend to the maturities of the regional government's debts and pay its suppliers, along with other things.

To achieve these things, I have always been prepared to speak with the Regional Government of Catalonia; to attend to the needs and concerns of the citizens of Catalonia.

But, as I pointed out before and I will repeat now, I am not prepared to pander to any challenge based on illegality. No-one should seek to take any political advantage from what has been an illegal act which, moreover, has been an outright disaster for its promoters. No-one should expect, then, that the government will call or authorise any form of call that is illegal or unjust, either for the people of Catalonia or for the rest of the people of Spain, that usurps the right to sovereignty that corresponds to all of us.

Dialogue is only possible and only makes sense and is only fruitful when there is a minimum degree of shared institutional loyalty. It is not a question of establishing conditions for dialogue, but rather of recalling that dialogue can never depend on what is impossible, nor establish beforehand the result thereof; in this case, calling a referendum on self-determination, because that is the dialogue I was invited to participate in.

To close, I want to insist on the value of unity; firstly, because I don't want to see a divided Catalonia, where some impose on others the obligation to renounce what belongs to them. We are living in times of integration, of union and of growth in a world that won't wait for us. Today's Catalonia and Spain embody an ideal whereby different people can live together and where this diversity makes our culture richer; our society more advanced, our economy and politics stronger, and our presence in the world much more visible.

Although there are some who try not to feel comfortable in Spain, we should see some merit in having converted this corner of Europe into an important country with a global projection that many would love to have; a country that belongs to us all and that no-one will be able to take away from so many millions of Catalans. Spain is the home of us all and between us all we must take care of it and preserve it. I, for one, will continue working to that end.

And now I am available to take any questions that you may have for me on this issue.

Q.- More than two million people, as you mentioned, voted on Sunday and there have been massive demonstrations. Aside from the figures, everyone agrees that the pro-independence movement is growing in Catalonia. So, besides saying to these pro-independence supporters that what they want cannot be achieved legally, what plan can you offer so that the people of Catalonia cease being pro-independence or stop adding new supporters to their cause?

I also wanted to ask you whether you feel that Artur Mas has humiliated the State as some would claim.

Finally, there is grave concern among your party members, as you are aware; not only because of Catalonia, but also because of other issues. Some are calling for far-reaching changes in the government, in your party… Do you feel that now is the time to make some kind of change in your government or in your party to give a new drive to the government?

President of the Government.- In answer to the last question, the answer is no.

As regards the first question you asked, it is true that at these elections, call or whatever we choose to name it, close to 30% of the census has turned out to vote; but there are two-thirds of the census who have not taken part. And I am the President of the Government of all the people of Catalonia, because I am the President of the Government of all the people of Spain, and hence, I must provide a response to all of our citizens as a whole.

I believe, and I have stated this on many occasions, that we face one challenge in this term of office, which is to overcome the most serious economic crisis that this country has gone through in the last three generations, to ensure that Spain enjoys economic growth and manages to create jobs. That was the challenge faced at the start of this legislature and that remains the challenge for this legislature.

To this end, I believe that right now it is fundamental to bring to an end this period of political instability being stirred up, which serves no purpose whatsoever. This entire term of office of this Regional Government of Catalonia has been solely and exclusively dedicated to this project that has ended with a turnout well below that expected and which has produced no tangible effects or positive results of any shape or form. I believe that now is the time, after so many calls and so many discussions, for the Regional Government of Catalonia to sit up and get to work on those issues that really matter to the people of Catalonia as a whole.

Hence, the plan I have at this time is to continue working to combat unemployment, which is the main concern of the vast majority of our citizens, to resolve the economic problems of these citizens and so that these more than two-thirds of the citizens that have not turned out to vote in Catalonia are also aware that their position is also valid. The only position that is valid in Catalonia is not the one held by Mr Mas; Catalonia, fortunately, is plural and there are people that think in a different manner, who think differently.

Should you always make an effort to reach agreement and consensus? This was done in its time, you can work towards this but, of course, what I am not prepared to do, under any circumstance, because I cannot be asked to do so, is accept an approach that consists of me having to authorise a referendum on self-determination and, moreover, that I have to look for a procedure under which this can be done legally. That is not dialogue, that is an imposition, because it's not a dialogue when you say at the end of it, "you have to talk so that in the end we can have a referendum that is legal". I have to enter into dialogue, in other words, say 'yes', and, furthermore, make up a formula, because one does not exist, for this to be legal.

That is why I have said to Mr Mas on many occasions, and I have reiterated this now in my initial speech, that the formula is clear, the democratic formula - propose a reform of the Constitution, bring this before Parliament and let everyone debate the issue.

Q.- Humiliation?

President of the Government.- I am not going get involved in bandying names. It was illegal, and that's all.

Q.- What importance does the government assign to the fact that there are ratings agencies that have already included Catalonia as a problem? Is it true that this problem wasn't on the radar of the markets three, four or five months ago, for example, but that now it is?

Secondly, what would need to happen in Catalonia for the government to see fit, to see it necessary to apply Article 155 of the Constitution to suspend its autonomous status?

President of the Government.- What you have said is true, because this has been published and communicated by some of the ratings agencies. This is true, but it is also true that at this time the Spanish risk premium is at much lower levels than when I came to power. I remember that back in 2012, the 10-year bond, for financing, stood above 7% whereas today, or at least a few minutes ago when I last checked, it stood at 2.08%. The risk premium is five times lower than the level it stood at in 2012.

Now, having said that, it is true that political stability is a very important value and that the markets look closely at political stability, as do investors. This is a problem that is pure common sense. Those countries where there is more stability and more legal certainty are obviously more attractive, or can be at a certain point in time, rather than others.

At any event, I believe that at this time the situation of the Spanish economy is strong and consolidated; there is general acknowledgement that there has been a strong intention to implement fiscal consolidation and structural reforms; we are growing more than Germany, France and Italy, and jobs are also being created. There is still a lot to do, but I believe that the Spanish economy is sound, although, obviously, these things don't help at all.

Of course, in Catalonia there were regional elections in 2010 and regional elections in 2012 which produced a result we are all aware of; there were also general elections in 2011, and in 2014 we have had European elections… In other words, we cannot live permanently in a state of calls to elections, because this generates instability and this means that the energy the government should be devoting to resolving more important problems which, I repeat, at this time are job creation and economic growth, are devoted to these sterile disputes which only serve to generate friction and divisions between people, and affect co-existence and the social cohesion of society.

As regards the question you asked me about Article 155, let's see. I believe that the Government of Spain, because I am aware that this is one of the issues, and hence I am not going to avoid it; the Government of Spain, in my opinion - and it would do the same again - I believe that it has adopted a sensible and balanced attitude.

The Government of Spain, firstly, has defended the law, and it has done so on two occasions when it became aware of the existence of the calls for referendums which, in the government's opinion, were illegal; and it was the Constitutional Court - this is a very important fact from any point of view - on both occasions on a unanimous basis, that backed the government's position, which was, by the way, the same position the vast majority of the Members of the Lower House adopted, and hence, the Constitutional Court said that neither of them could be held, firstly the referendum and secondly this simulation of a referendum that we have spoken about during today and in recent times. Hence, the government defended the law.

Secondly, the government has taken its decisions proportionally. Some of the organisers of that which took place in Barcelona on Sunday would have probably liked to have seen another type of photo, or perhaps they would have liked to see another type of information in the international press. But, in the end, it had the effect that it had, and hence this government has acted proportionally.

I feel I should say that our justice system has also acted proportionally, because there was one judge in Barcelona who said what you are all aware he said, which was that "at this time it doesn't seem to be the most opportune or the most reasonable thing to say that the ballot boxes be removed". And there was also proportionality in the responses of other State authorities.

I believe that any other decision would have only served to provoke further friction and create more difficulties. Quite simply, I believe that the government acted as it needed to.

Q.- You have spoken on several occasions about the two-thirds of the Catalan census that didn't turn out to vote. I wanted to ask you if you consider that these two-thirds, and indeed the rest of the Spanish people have a certain right to feel abandoned by the fact that their President of the Government took 72 hours to provide a response.

Secondly, you have spoken about the proportionality of the justice system and of the government, but I wanted to ask you if you feel the action announced, that will be brought by the Public Prosecutor's Office against Artur Mas and several of his councillors, is proportional.

President of the Government.- That is an issue on which opinions are divided, as you are aware. I will only say that I have met my obligations. I have lodged appeals on two occasions to the Constitutional Court when there were many people who didn't want me to appeal to the Constitutional Court on the second occasion. Furthermore, I have acted, as I have just said, proportionally.

I am aware that there are other people who wanted me to act in a different manner. I don't know exactly what they wanted; nobody has dared to say it out loud. I believe that I have been sensible in the decisions I have taken.

I repeat, I believe that there are those who would have liked me to take more drastic decisions. I believe I have done what needed to be done. I have met my obligations. Because proportionality is very important, as is restraint, when taking decisions in life, in any walk of life and, of course, much more so when we are talking about issues such as these.

As regards the State's Attorney General, I am completely unaware of what he is going to do; I simply don't know. I have read in the media the same as you have read. The only thing I have to say on the issue is that the State's Attorney General has certain powers as provided for under Article 124 of the Constitution, that the State's Attorney General acts independently and that I am no-one to tell him what he has to do, nor is anybody else to tell him what he has to do. Those are the rules of a democratic State.

Q.- President of the Government, and the 72 hours to respond?

President of the Government.- That has been answered.

Q.- I wanted to know whether the government is settling into a scenario of early elections. You have spoken about regional elections in Catalonia in 2010 and in 2012, we seem to be heading towards new elections and, if they want to give them that plebiscitary touch that is so often spoken about, aren't we running the risk of having a subsequent scenario to that which we have now?

With regard to the question my colleague asked about the Public Prosecutor, he has announced, or we have been led to understand that he will file an action against Artur Mas and some of his councillors. Will this not serve to feed even more the argument of the pro-independence supporters by filing an action against the President of the Regional Government of Catalonia?

President of the Government.- I must respect the decisions taken by the Public Prosecutor and the decisions of the judiciary because, if not, we wouldn't be setting the right example. One of the key principles of democracy is that we are all subject to the rule of law. One of the things I must do is respect the powers of the administration of justice and respect the independence of the Public Prosecutor's Office, as the State's Attorney General reminded us yesterday, which all of you had the opportunity to witness.

Aside from that, new elections? That is what they are proposing. What they are proposing is that, if we don't do what Mr Mas says, they will call elections. That is the dialogue the State is being invited to, "either you do what I say, or I will call elections". That is exactly the situation we are facing.

I am not empowered to call elections in Catalonia. The only person empowered to do so is Mr Mas. What I feel I must say is that there were regional elections in 2010, in 2012 and we may have them again in 2014 or at the beginning of 2015. And what I should remind you of is that we have spent the last two years with this issue without the Regional Government of Catalonia taking charge of the problems that truly affect the citizens of Catalonia as a whole and that this generates - I answered a question on this earlier - a problem of political instability that I clearly do not feel is reasonable. Aside from that, it is not a power I hold.

What I can say is that, if we devote ourselves to what we should, which is none other than overcoming the economic crisis at a time in which we have still not overcome it, although there are certain positive figures -we are now growing, we are now creating jobs-, the possibilities of an understanding between the Regional Government of Catalonia and the Spanish National Parliament will be much greater than if the debate they are proposing to us in this place, in this location, where they are proposing it at this time, continues; above all when more than two thirds of the citizens of Catalonia have chosen not to participate in this process and these two-thirds of citizens in Catalonia deserve as much respect, at least, as the respect for Mr Mas.

Q.- I wanted to know what opinion you hold of the idea that Artur Mas wants to internationalise the Catalan cause. In this regard, I also wanted to know what guarantee the Spanish Government has from its partners in the European Union, whether or not the Catalan cause receives support.

President of the Government.- No country in the world has supported the holding in Spain of a referendum in breach of the Spanish Constitution and of its law. Europe has many positive things- I of course am profoundly pro-European - and one of the things it has is respect for democracy, for liberty and for the law. If governors are unaware that they cannot place themselves above the law then we have a problem. In life, you need to set priorities and respect the rules of the game, co-existence and respect for the law is above the ideology of any individual. Hence, it is a basic principle of the European Union that we are all subject to the rule the law.

No other country has supported this. I am very pleased with the support we have received on this occasion and on others. On this occasion, the holding of this event was probably less important than what it held initially; but I am obviously very satisfied and, I repeat, one of the basic principles of the European Union is that we are all subject, particularly those in government, to the rule the law.

Q.- You have made it clear that you have absolutely no knowledge - nor have you taken any part in what is now in the public domain - of the filing, in the coming hours, of an action against the President of the Regional Government of Catalonia, and foreseeably against other members of this regional government, an action which is aimed at asking for the defendants to be banned from holding public office, and hence, their expulsion from political life. I wanted to ask you about the scenario you seek in the coming months, taking into account the real situation that exists, which is none other than a major political conflict between the Government of Spain and the legitimate government of the main autonomous region in the Spanish economic order. In other words, do you want the political scene for the coming months to be one whereby the President of the Regional Government of Catalonia is expelled from the political arena?

Then, coming back to your assertion of the strict formal separation of the government from the Public Prosecutor's Office, I wanted to ask you if you consider it appropriate that yesterday certain members of your party in Catalonia announced or pre-announced the content of the action by the State's Attorney General. Thank you very much.

President of the Government.- Thank you very much. I don't have… I don't know if an action will be filed, against whom it will be brought and what is the sentence being sought. Believe me when I say I don't know. I have given, I once again repeat, as you reminded us, no instructions in this regard. The only thing that I want to say on this issue is that I respect the decisions adopted by the Public Prosecutor's Office, as I will respect the decisions adopted by the administration of justice, and I would like everyone to do exactly the same as me, in other words, respect the rules of the game that, between us all, we have enacted in this country.

Regarding what those people said that you mentioned, I cannot give an opinion because I have no knowledge of the matter.

Q.- You said in your introduction that you have set out a political solution, a political exit strategy, to Artur Mas, which is the reform of the Constitution. You have said that you will not allow national sovereignty to be done away with, and hence I wanted to know if you would accept a constitutional reform to ring-fence the basic powers of Catalonia.

Another question. Now that we have become aware that for months there were secret meetings between Pedro Arriola, José Enrique Serrano and Joan Rigol, meetings confirmed by these very persons, I wanted to know whether you feel it to be useful for a group such as this to be maintained so that a political solution can be found to the problem of Catalonia discreetly.

President of the Government.- Indeed, these meetings were held at the initiative of Mr Rigol, as he himself claimed. It is clear that whenever someone invites someone else to talk, it can't be bad to talk and, for this reason, they held these meetings at which two people took part on behalf of each one of the people, of the leader of the Socialist Party and on my behalf. These talks couldn't avoid, in the end, an event being held that its very promoters considered to be illegal.

But I believe that talking is good, isn't it? The problem is, as I said before, when you invite someone to talk but you have already set their homework and you tell them what it is that they have to sign. In this case, I have to sign that I accept a referendum that destroys our national sovereignty, which is something that I am not going to do. I believe that it is good to be clear and make the rules of the game absolutely clear.

As regards the constitutional reform and any ring-fencing, I am not going to get ahead of events. This is another of the issues being spoken about a lot at the moment, the plan, the constitutional reform… Look, to be perfectly frank, and I have repeated this on countless occasions, if someone wants to reform the Constitution… Let me say this clearly. I hear, for example, the Socialist Party say that it wants a federal system. So, it must say what that consists of; if we need to give some regional governments more powers than others, if those powers of some regional governments should be ring-fenced or not, which model of financing do they want to adopt, if this is the same for all or if it is different for some.

A response must be given to this. What we cannot do is resort to pulling a rabbit out of a hat; in other words, let's see if something occurs to us to see if we can resolve this problem.

I have never refused to talk about a constitutional reform, but those who want a constitutional reform must make a proposal. I have presented many draft laws to Parliament during the course of this legislature. I have made a proposal and then, certain things have changed, others have not changed, on other issues we have reached an agreement, we have accepted certain positions offered by the opposition, etc. On many occasions the same opposition has presented initiatives to Parliament; on the electricity sector, "we believe that what needs to be done is this and that and so forth"; on this issue, "we believe that what needs to be done is this and that and so forth…"; on European policy, "the positions we should defend are this and that and so forth".

If someone wants to carry out a constitutional reform, I will say that I am willing to listen to them, but what I cannot accept is that the government is told to propose a constitutional reform because the government, at this time, doesn't see a need for a constitutional reform, but it accepts that others may see a need. Let them do it. And I would say this clearly to the Socialist Party.

Q.- You have persistently maintained to us your confidence in the fact that Mr Mas would uphold the law, that he would end up upholding it - we have heard you say this on countless occasions - do you regret not having acted earlier?

I would also like to know whether you believe that it is viable to have a Catalonia governed by someone that does not submit to the rule of law, as indeed you say.

President of the Government.- I explained earlier what my position is: we have defended the law, we have acted in a proportional manner, we have avoided more friction being generated than those who organised this event provoked and, hence, I believe that we have done what needed to be done. Aside from that, as you are all aware and you all know among yourselves, the opinions are very diverse and varied. But I believe the government has done exactly what it needed to do.

As regards your second question, I don't speak about future possibilities. I don't even know what the State's Attorney General is going to do. So you can understand that neither do I know everything that will happen subsequently. I am wholly unaware of this.

Q.- You have said, as your message to the two million people that turned out to vote in Catalonia the other day, that you will continue to work to make economic improvements; but you have been doing this since the start of your term of office, emphasising the economic improvement of the people of Spain. Hence, I would like to know if you have anything more to offer these people that turned out to vote or if you will continue to focus on the economy.

Next point, on Sunday, Artur Mas said that he hadn't spoken with you since the month of July and I would like to know why - if apparently the two of you are so in favour of dialogue - so many months have passed without the two of you speaking, if that is indeed the case.

And lastly, a doubt: if what happened on Sunday was a simulation, why is it illegal? In other words, why does a simulation without any effects seem illegal to you?

President of the Government.- It is illegal for such a simple reason as it is in breach of a resolution handed down by the Constitutional Court. Simply for that reason.

Whenever Mr Mas has called me, I have always spoken with him. Whenever he has wanted to see me, I have seen him. And that is true for the past, the present and the future. Hence, I don't have a problem in that respect. But what I think is right is that what I have said so many times to Mr Mas should now be said in public: you cannot ask the President of the Government to negotiate with our national sovereignty and, above all, impose it on him, or if not, "I will call elections". Not under any circumstance. That is just not possible because I fear that the vast majority of the people of Spain just won't accept it, and rightly so, under any circumstance.

To the people of Catalonia, in the same way as to the people of Santiago de Compostela, I don't speak to them and tell one thing to some of them and the opposite to others; not at all. What I say is that less than one-third of the people in the census, to put it that way, took part, with some saying one thing and others saying another thing, while more than two-thirds of them didn't take part, who had their reasons for not doing so, and hence, Catalonia is plural, and hence, the decisions adopted, particularly by the Government of Spain, cannot be decisions that only affect part of the people, however much this part is backed by the President of the Regional Government of Catalonia, because then, what could we say to the two-thirds or more of the citizens of Catalonia who didn't take part.

So, my position is one of synthesis: look, let's now devote our time to what is important to everyone, to both the one-third and to the two-thirds, namely the economy and unemployment. I am not going to touch our national sovereignty, I am not going to break it up, but, aside from that, I am willing to talk about anything you feel is suitable. If you want a constitutional reform, propose one - any party, any political force, can do so - the government will pay close attention, the government will speak out and the government will talk; but what I am not prepared to talk about ever, is the unity of Spain and national sovereignty.

And I say this to the more than two-thirds of the citizens of Catalonia who didn't turn out to vote, to those who did and to the rest of the people of the whole of Spain. That is the position of the President of the Government of Spain.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for attending.