Press conference by President of the French Republic and President of the Government

Mr. Macron .- Ladies and gentlemen, I would like, first of all, to thank Mariano Rajoy for coming here to this working lunch together with our respective teams and our ministers for European affairs. I am also grateful to Mariano for coming so soon to Paris with a view to the upcoming European Council; and we have also been able to talk very thoroughly about bilateral issues and the future of the European Union.

We have a common history, shared values and many common positions that have allowed us on various occasions to move forward together. I haven't forgotten the progress made in recent years, particularly on Banking Union, which would not have been possible without Spain's decisive boost.

We were also able to exchange our visions on the priorities for the European Union and the Eurozone. For my part, I insisted on the agenda of a Europe that provides protection, something I want to advocate over the coming weeks and months, through a far-reaching reform of the Directive on the Posting of Workers - we are going to organise a joint work team to effectively tackle all the technical issues relating to this directive, sector by sector - and also to have a more developed policy on defence issues, and joint initiatives in the area of the fight against illegal immigration and carry out a joint policy on asylum policy at a Europe-wide level. We have the same goals on this issue and I believe that we have reiterated this intention to work together here today.

On another note, next week we will have the chance to discuss this matter clearly, above all the issues of security and military cooperation, which we are involved in on a daily basis in the different theatres of operations, but that we reiterate in the case of the European strategy.

We were also able to exchange our common vision of the future of the European Union and the Eurozone. In this case, Spain has actively participated, as I did during the campaign, in this debate and, in fact, made a high-level contribution, which I wholly agree with. And hence, we have shown our intention to make progress together on these issues: the reform of the European Union and the Eurozone, because these are key issues for helping our economies and societies converge, and to design a medium- and long-term future for Europe. This is also essential.

While we need to manage crises and problems in the short term, it is also essential for us to re-design a shared future and to establish medium- and long-term goals.

As regards this roadmap, we have decided to work together over the coming weeks and months together with all those countries that want to make a commitment to this end.

These are the main issues on the agenda. Aside from that, I also want us to make progress on common bilateral issues of interest - in the field of energy and on the matters of cultural, linguistic and university cooperation. These are the issues that we will tackle at the upcoming France-Spain Summit that will we will have the pleasure of hosting in France at the start of 2018. I would once again like to thank Mariano Rajoy for coming to Paris today and for the excellent working meeting and display of friendship we have both just enjoyed, prior to meeting up again next week at the European Council.

President of the Government.- Thank you very much. A very good afternoon to you.

I want to start this brief speech by thanking the President of the French Republic, Emmanuel Macron, for his kind invitation to this working lunch here, today, at Élysée Palace. Quite frankly, he could not have been more hospitable.

I have had the chance to congratulate him in person, not on his election as President of the Republic, which I did back after the elections, but rather for the results of the elections that took place last Sunday and which will be completed, as you are fully aware, next Sunday.

I believe that the victory achieved by Emmanuel Macron in the latest elections constitutes a message of moderation, of pro-Europeanism, of stability and confidence, which has been very well received by the vast majority of sensible, reasonable Europeans and is a commitment to this great political project that is called Europe, which began even before 1957, with the Treaty of Rome, the 60th anniversary of which we have just recently celebrated.

As you all know, and it is not necessary for me to repeat this, France and Spain are two sister nations, allies, neighbours and invaluable partners. Indeed, we have done many things together. Relations couldn't be better. France is Spain's leading customer; its second leading supplier; millions and millions of French tourists visit us each year; our trade exchanges amount to 70 billion euros, and logically, this means that, for our part, we have every possible interest in stepping up our bilateral relations, which are already good, in the future.

We have indeed held a very fruitful meeting today, at which we agreed on the key issues. I wanted to mention some of those issues that I feel are the most important.

Firstly, the fight against terrorism. The fight against terrorism is one of the top priorities for the European Union because it is, and rightly so, the main concern of the people of Europe, after seeing the sad and unfortunate events that have unfolded in recent times. We are going to try and step up - and we are convinced that we will manage to do this - cooperation between the main intelligence services, which is undoubtedly one of the most effective instruments in defeating terrorism.

We also spoke, as the French President mentioned in his speech, about the Directive on the Posting of Workers. We are going to try and reach an understanding and an agreement, and I am sure that we will manage to achieve this in the near future.

A very important issue for Spain is electricity interconnections through the Pyrenees. Some progress has been made recently, but we would like the Single Energy Market to become a genuine single market as soon as possible. I hope that we can also reach an agreement on this issue in the near future.

And we are also going to collaborate on one of the great infrastructure works that will help improve the competitiveness of European economies, which is the Mediterranean Corridor; a corridor that passes through France, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia and also Hungary.

Something that is very important; I want to reiterate what was said on the issues of asylum and immigration. Behind terrorism, this is the second greatest concern to the people of Europe. This is an issue on which the European Union must take decisive steps because we most assuredly need to resolve this issue, both for those immigrants arriving and for the people of Europe. These are issues that come up time and time again at European Council meetings. We are making progress, but we all want to see things being done much quicker.

Lastly, we also spoke about the future of Europe. Europe has been around since the Treaty of Rome, as I reminded you earlier, it has existed for 60 years now. It has always taken steps in the right direction, sometimes more quickly and, at other times, more slowly, but it is clear that all those of us that head up governments, and the vast majority of European citizens, want to see increasingly more integration in Europe. We are going to improve integration on issues dealing with security and defence policy.

There are still some pending issues in relation to Banking Union, the European Deposit Insurance Fund, and then, I believe that we should start to talk, although this is definitely not an issue for the immediate future…, but precisely for this reason, we should begin to talk about Fiscal Union.

Hence, in short, I believe that this has been a very beneficial meeting; we agree on the main fundamental issues; Spain is interested in contributing its experience, its knowledge and the talent of many Spaniards to this process of European construction; we will always stand by our friends, allies and partners, and in this case with France, with its government and also with all the people of France.

I once again repeat my gratitude to the President of the Republic for his invitation. I have handed over an invitation to him today from H.M. the King of Spain to make a State visit and we hope that he will be able to do so when their respective agendas so allow.

Q.- For President Macron. In principle, we wanted to ask you if you have analysed the situation in Catalonia and, at any event, what your opinion is of the attempt by the Regional Government of Catalonia to unilaterally hold a referendum.

And for the President of the Government of Spain, at a national level and after the PSOE [Spanish Socialist Workers' Party] holds its congress this weekend and Pedro Sánchez is officially elected, do you intend to meet up with him to try to seek a rapprochement or, on the contrary, do you fear a rapprochement between the PSOE and Podemos and the subsequent presentation of a motion of no confidence that has a chance of prospering?

Mr. Macron.- On the issue of Catalonia, let me be very straight-forward and speak to you clearly: this is an internal matter for Spain and I have absolutely no comment to make on the subject. I have one partner and friend, which is Spain, Spain as a whole. I know who my counterparty is and he is standing next to me and his name is Mariano Rajoy. The rest doesn't concern me.

President of the Government.- After Mr Sánchez was elected as the General Secretary of his party I spoke with him by phone. We agreed that we would meet up whenever it was necessary, and on that occasion he stated something to me that I said then was very important, not only for the Government of Spain, but also for Spain as a whole and for the Spanish people, which was that he backed the Spanish Constitution and defended national sovereignty. That for me suffices. I believe that it is a very positive decision.

If he reaches an agreement with one party or another… Not long ago we approved the General State Budget with a sufficient number of votes. We have 137 seats in the Lower House and we will work with everyone to try to build up the country, without any exceptions, except those with whom it is impossible, and there are some, as you know.

Hence, I will always be willing to talk with Mr Sánchez but the only conversation I have had with him since that time was very positive in my opinion because, I repeat, on one of the major issues we have on the table at this time, he has set out his position clearly and I wholeheartedly share that position.

Q.- Mr Rajoy, my question is about Greece. Their Minister for Economy explained that the agreement reached yesterday could be blocked if the international members of the Privatisation Committee in Greece are not granted immunity. I believe this comprises one Spaniard, one Italian and one Slovakian. Could the agreement indeed be blocked?

Mr Macron, carrying on with Greece, France has proposed the idea of associating the commitment to Greek debt with the economic growth of the country in the future. Could you tell us if other leaders in Europe like this idea?

President of the Government.- Indeed, as you have pointed out, there are three people on the Privatisation Committee: a Spanish citizen, a Slovakian and an Italian, who replaced the first person who was there before, who was a German national. And indeed, an agreement was reached yesterday, which was very positive in my opinion, on the issue of Greece. Greece must meet its commitments, I believe that it is making a great effort, they are doing things well, and hence, I believe that yesterday's agreement is positive.

Now, in the same way as I say that, I can say to you that what has happened is absolutely unacceptable. We are talking and discussing these between us all. This is an issue that affects Europe, not just an issue that affects Slovakia, Italy and Spain; it affects all Europeans and I am totally and utterly convinced , and this is the intention of the Greek authorities, that this issue will be resolved as soon as possible.

Hence, I don't believe we need to go into detail about every issue that arises. What we must do is focus on resolving this issue, which simply isn't fair. But let's look at the positive side: an agreement has been reached about Greece and I hope that a quick decision is taken by whoever it falls to so that we can all be put at ease.

Mr. Macron.- I will answer the second question from your colleague so as not to run the risk of causing any frustration.

I would like to say, first of all, that I fully share what has just been said about the agreement reached yesterday evening, which I believe is a good agreement and we don't have to create any instability or uncertainty regarding the situation. This was an agreement reached by the Finance Ministers, it was necessary and I welcome the role that France has been able to play in facilitating its conclusion.

It is important to have an agreement at this level in order to allow the financing necessary and accompany Greece in the reforms it has just completed, which were complicated reforms, and this needs to be said.

Furthermore, I can confirm that several technical proposals have also been made in these recent weeks of talks; some of them originating in France. These solutions are ongoing because, at any event, we must come back to the issue of Greece in the coming months and the solutions that France has been able to propose that go further on this issue will be brought up again because, while the agreement reached yesterday is a good agreement, we are also aware that it is not a final agreement.

Q.- I wanted to ask both leaders a question. Looking at the harmony here today between Mr Rajoy and Mr Macron, and that in Spain Ciudadanos and its leader, Albert Rivera, feels and is presented like a hero, and as someone who is very close to the French movement "En Marché", I wanted to know, from the President of the Government of Spain, whether you, now that you have personally met Mr Macron, see this comparison as existing, if you understand this comparison.

And for the French President, I wanted to know whether you have spoken about this, whether you have spoken about this situation and whether you have given Mr Rajoy any advice about how to handle the leader of a party that stands for new regenerating politics, such as yourself.

President of the Government.- In reality, I am lucky enough to have known Mr Macron for some years now, which I find comforting and enriching, and today we have seen him once again.

As regards Mr Rivera, Mr Macron is now the President of the French Republic because that is what the people of France have decided and I am the President of the Government of Spain because that is what the people of Spain have decided. Everything else is just talk.

Mr. Macron.- I didn't think that the question was addressed to me, but I can quite simply say that I agree with what has just been said. There are convergences between the different European movements that exist, but, above all, what you have is certain responsibilities at the head of our two countries, a desire to work together and converge.

I have not given the slightest piece of advice to the President of the Government of Spain, because I don't think he needs it, whether to forge coalitions or to negotiate with Parliament. He knows the situation in Spain better than me and the institutional differences are so many that I wouldn't dare to give him any advice in that respect.

Now, as you will have appreciated, we have spoken in a decisive, passionate manner and broadly speaking, our shared ideas converge regarding the future of Europe and our European project. That is what was important at this working lunch.

Q.- Mr President, your slogan "a protective Europe" is very popular in France, but not so much in other European countries, which are our partners. We saw this yesterday when you spoke about the Directive on the Posting of Workers. I wanted to know how you intend to convince your partners of this.

I also have a question for Mr Rajoy. I am perfectly aware that there is no far right-wing party in Spain, but there is a far left-wing party. So, could this idea of a protective Europe become a slogan that becomes popular in Spain? And what do you think about the intention of the French President to step up the fight against fraud in relation to posted workers?

Mr. Macron.- In response to the question you have asked, I would firstly say that yesterday we obtained a postponement of a consensus that seemed insufficient to us. There is no minority nor have we failed in this. This goes to show that this "protective Europe" is viewed positively in the European Union.

Earlier I was with Mark Rutte, from one of the countries that is a little more at the forefront and, furthermore, who is very liberal and in favour of wholly opening up the markets. What did Mark Rutte say to me at our meeting, which was even held in French? That he is in favour of a protective Europe. Why? Because he has gone through an election campaign that he won against extremists.

What divides Europe? What has led to Brexit? What sows doubts in our societies? This happens when Europe is no longer comprehensible for our citizens; when Europe leads to far-fetched situations that we cannot even explain; when Europe is no longer simply a single market, with shared values and regulations and a destination for each one of them, but rather becomes either the survival of the fittest or a game whereby those with the least rights or rules come out on top. Hence, we cannot take Europe away from its own peoples, particularly away from the middles classes. Those times are over and I went through that in the campaign I headed up, as indeed have many other leaders.

Hence, yes, I trust that a Europe that offers social protection is gaining ground, but this must be done cleverly and not antagonistically. I have spoken about this with all my partners and will continue to do so.

I have to visit several States in Central and Eastern Europe before the European Council, I have met with some of them already and on each occasion I say the same: it is not a question of stigmatising anyone; it is a question of simply saying that what may appear to be a benefit today for you because of the dysfunctional nature of our rules collectively destabilises Europe, generates disaffection and anger in many of our countries and will lead to all of us losing. We must thus change the rules.

Nor is it a question of preventing the creation of a single market that works well, but of strengthening the controls on fraud, because this is in everyone's interest and because legislation governs the rule of law. Limiting exploitation, limiting all the ways to bypass the rules we have at this time and better allowing countries that have fewer social laws than ours to converge and improve their social rules through convergence mechanisms, as we did in the past, is what I truly believe we should be striving for.

A protective Europe is also a Europe that claims to have a voluntary agenda when talking about the right to asylum, when we talk about immigration, when we talk about the fight against terrorism and when we talk about defence and security policy. Nowadays we are in a world where the risks are increasingly rising and the idea of Europe or democracy is even seen as a threat. So, our collective responsibility, in the defence of our values, our history and our shared commitment to individual freedoms, lies in finding a way to protect our fellow citizens and also to contribute the much-needed European protection. This will also form part of the conclusions from the next European Council, we spoke about this a great deal today with Mariano Rajoy and we exchanged very similar perspectives on this issue.

President of the Government.- You have asked me two questions, one on the Directive on Posted Workers and another about the far right and the far left in Europe and the message from President Macron regarding "a protective Europe".

I believe that the far right and the far left in Europe are virtually indistinguishable because if you look at what each one of them is saying about the other and about everyone else, you will then agree with me that what I have just said is indeed true.

I believe that the vast majority of Europeans are sensible, moderate and reasonable people, who can perfectly share certain ideas.

First, the European Project is one of the most important political projects that have been carried out for many centuries in the world. It started, as I reminded you earlier, back in 1957 and in Europe, despite the criticisms and other things we hear, we should not forget that Europe today accounts for 25% of global trade and 25% of global GDP. Europe is the only place in the world with a Welfare State that guarantees its citizens a public pension system, a healthcare system, an education system and social services for everyone; that does not exist anywhere else. Europe is a benchmark in democracy, freedom, human rights and respect for individuals, and there are many places in the world - many no, a great many - where this does not exist. Europe is a place everyone wants to come to, as we constantly see one day after another, and we have been seeing this for some time now.

In other words, I believe that we must defend the European project because we undoubtedly live in one of the best…, in the best region in the world as a whole, in my opinion.

Secondly, I believe that we must now make an effort to resolve the major problems that are still pending in Europe. Of course, the first of these is terrorism; the second is the problems taking place with the refugees, wars, the dramatic situation of so many people that take to the sea, an issue that we must remedy between us all. We must also try and maintain economic growth, which has finally come back to Europe, and job creation.

And lastly, the great reflection that President Macron mentioned in his speech regarding where Europe is heading. Well, it is heading towards greater integration, more defence policy, more common security policy, we are going to complete the Banking Union, we are going to start talking about Fiscal Union and about a European Budget. And I believe that the vast majority of Europeans stand for moderation, wisdom and common sense and for a project that has worked, that has produced results and that undoubtedly has a great future.

You then have people on the far right and on the far left who want to tear everything up and lead us on a road to nowhere, which is precisely where they feel most comfortable.

Mr. Macron.- Thank you very much for your attention.